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    We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

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    blouAngel

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    We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by blouAngel on Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:36 pm

    Hi Y'all! That includes you RLC guests.

    A lot, maybe all of you know that a dispute that I had with a moderator at WS caused our exodus from there, which collapsed another board and brought us all together for some fun and freedom here. I think the utopian dream was that we could find a promised land with no teachers and no parents and we would play happily forever. Unfortunately, anarchy is never workable in practice, particularly when a collective rather than an individual good is the goal.

    Anonymity and the distance a computer only partially bridges makes for some difficult group interaction at times, but the group that fell together at WS and that we felt was important to keep intact came together and rebanded because we all felt that sustaining a group and the work that goes into that can and has provided us with something that benefits us individually as we nurture it.

    Vigorous debate isn't a threat to the group that we brought here. It was our sustenance in fact. Some of our recent conversations have de-volved (Are we not men?... that's only semi-rhetorical by the way and meant to break the tension so fucking laugh!) into personal squabbles that remind me of what my brother and I did in the back seat of the car when were 6 years old.

    That does not I'd argue help keep the real discussion going or help with the important goal of keeping some sort of group cohesion so that we can collectively achieve that goals that only a group can. I'm no advocate of blind adherence to anything and more of a loner than a joiner but I also value the communities that I'm a part of since they let us all learn and grow by participating responsibly in them. I'm all for off-topic, off-color even, but not ridiculously squabbling posts. Things were headed that way yesterday and considering the crash of the last RLC and our history at WS, I understand a panic effort to step in and slam the brake on.

    Unfortunately, as I understand the set up of these things, the available set of moderation tools is somewhat crude and were applied in a way resembling a tourniquet more than a bandage. It may be easier after the fact to decide which is needed at any given time.

    Explanations aside, we are where we are and some people are surprised, offended, confused, whatever. I have much more life than I can deal with off line, but I value the time I spend here. I appreciated the new blood we got when our two bands of travelers merged, and I'm hoping we can find a way to carry on.

    That said, I'd like to solicit thoughts and suggestions on how we keep a strong group dynamic going without things like this happening again. My first suggestion is a brief statement of what is to be expected of participants and moderators. "Rules!" you cry. Well yes of course, mostly don't be a dick, but maybe said more sweetly.

    I have to leave for a few hours. Add your thoughts, but please be cool and insist upon coolness if you participate. That means KEEP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS AND FINGER POINTING THE HELL OUT OF MY THREAD. Don't mistake that for discouraging vigorous debate. If you can't tell the difference, then you most certainly are in the wrong place.

    Again--- PLEASE BE COOL AND INSIST UPON COOLNESS IF YOU PARTICIPATE---
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    Percy
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Percy on Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:07 pm

    I'm all for off-topic, off-color even, but not ridiculously squabbling posts. Things were headed that way yesterday and considering the crash of the last RLC and our history at WS, I understand a panic effort to step in and slam the brake on.



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    dangrsmind

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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by dangrsmind on Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:16 pm

    Thank You

    I rate this posting:

    bong hit bong hit bong hit bong hit bong hit
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    ziggy

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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by ziggy on Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:54 pm

    I commend everyone for letting the dust settle and not turning a sad and unfortunate event into juicy gossip of the day. We can see that some form of moderation is necessary. I was going to suggest an "attitude monitor" - someone who can see the difference between a passionate heated debate and the one-liner or two-liner snide insults that lead in opposite direction of what everyone says they want. But that person will have to make unpopular calls, as does every moderator, and no matter how well intentioned they are, someone will find fault. All referees, of sorts, make some bad calls too, but walk a mile in their shoes and you might have a little more compassion.

    There have to be some guildlines, if you will, OK, rules - yes rules to live by here. I would hope that just BE COOL would be enough and maybe it will be. My question is what happens when someone starts to pick at others with undertones of shit disturbing and baiting? I dunno. Time out?

    I'm not going to criticize Pax and Heroine because I know they've already had their own struggles with it - the job can suck. It's too late to second guess so moving forward is the best thing. I'll be interested to hear some others weigh in.
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    Wes

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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Wes on Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:22 pm

    I'd like to participate but....I really have no idea what you guys are talking about. So I leave you with this:

    Big Hug
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    dangrsmind

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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by dangrsmind on Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:22 am

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    Percy
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Percy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:19 pm

    Been a little busy and havent been able to address this but I do have something to say.

    First what happened was not personal, it was a very difficult decision AND I MADE THAT DECISION nobody else on this forum should take the heat or the blame and that includes Heroine. She was acting on my advice, she trusted my advice, perhaps I gave her bad advice, I am willing to live with that, accept the blame, take the heat and the fall for it, but please dont put it on her or anyone else on this forum, it was my decision and my decision alone.

    I am not going to get in to specifics, it will do no good. I saw a shit storm approaching and I reacted the only I way I know how and that is to protect the few people I care about WITH REGARD TO THE CASE AND OUR BODY OF WORK. It wasnt an easy fucking decision and I know I hurt a lot of people's feelings and for that I am genuinely sorry, for those of you who took the time to get to know me you KNOW it wasnt an easy decision to make, but I made it and I will live with it.



    I have requested that Heroine remove me as a moderator, I am not cut out for the job, I dont compromise well and I am too battlefield minded for such responsibility. I have requested that she further decide herself how she wants to proceed.

    As for me, I will discuss the case, thats what I came here for and that is what I intend to do, and nothing else further.

    Thanks, and I am truly sorry for all those I hurt and left confused. I am especially very sincerely and deeply sorry to Bob, Karma, Kay, LadyG and the rest of you who had come to know me as someone different than the person who had to make this very difficult decision. Again I wont explain why I did it in detail but please know it wasnt personal and it was a very difficult decision and for lack of a better word some of you were simply 'casualities of war.' I am sorry and I see no real reason why you should forgive me, but do know, that I am indeed sorry.

    P


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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Percy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:59 pm

    I would add that its time to move on and go back to business as usual. Open up the forum whoever wants to come can come.


    One rule which I didnt think even needed to be mentioned to begin with but I guess I was wrong.

    NO PERSONAL ATTACKS.

    Personal attack is defined as personal attack on another member of the community. Using personal information a poster has freely offered in one thread or another and using that against them, throwing it in their face, using it to belittle them, slander them, make them look bad, destroy their reputation etc.

    No personal attacks at all, I would suggest zero tolerance here, no warnings, one personal attack or anything resembling it and youre gone, no questions asked. Period.

    Other than that, speak your mind say what you want, just dont attack others in a PERSONAL MANNER.



    ALL BANS WILL BE LIFTED SOMETIME THIS EVENING AS HEROINE FINDS THE TIME AND SHE WILL BE MAKING A STATEMENT OF HER OWN SOON REGARDING THAT.

    You are all welcome back and we can proceed with business as usual, my apologies to everyone.


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    Heroine
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Heroine on Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:46 pm

    I have decided I am ready to say something on behalf of Outcasts. As you all know Pax has asked to be removed as mod. It was his decision, not mine.I know not everyone agrees with what went down but, he was trying to protect the community and he did what he thought needed to be done, we are all hurting because of it, including Pax. What's done is done.
    I am going to UNBAN everyone as of now and we can proceed with business as usual.

    2 requests

    No discussion of what happened

    No personal
    attacks

    BUT IF THERE ARE ANY PERSONAL ATTACKS of any kind after this, that
    person will be BANNED IMEDIATELY without warning!
    So it's time for us to move on, and HAVE SOME FUN!


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    Percy
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Percy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:48 pm



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    claudicici

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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by claudicici on Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:57 pm

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    Heroine
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Heroine on Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:18 pm

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    Percy
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Percy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:20 pm

    I still cannot believe this guy followed us over from websleuths:




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    ziggy

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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by ziggy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:48 pm

    Happy Dance!
    I hope The Kay will still keep up on reading a bit of the case from time to time - cool chick was she.
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    Percy
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Percy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:58 pm

    ziggy wrote:Happy Dance!
    I hope The Kay will still keep up on reading a bit of the case from time to time - cool chick was she.

    Yes I really felt very bad about Kay because she was sort of taking an interest in the case and we always enjoy new folks who want to learn about it.


    Like I said I feel bad about the whole thing I only did what I thought needed to be done Zigster. I am not defending what I did at all, it may have been a complete over reaction, I will take the heat for it.


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    ziggy

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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by ziggy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:13 pm

    OK I told Heroine that I would be available to try my hand at it after finals April 18th. I'm volunteering (cuz I am THAT crazy) to start on a limited basis so now is your chance to tell her whether you think that's a bad idea or not. I kinda feel like I should contribute. I've enjoyed this group and would like to see us get through these foreseeable growing pains.

    My personal philosophy is to always fire a warning shot...
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    ericclimbs

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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by ericclimbs on Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:22 pm

    I would like to add that, though not everyone may, or may not have, agreed with past decisions, nor will necessarily agree with subsequent decisions, we are becoming stronger as a group for perservering through adversity. Relationships, even group relationships, are a piece of cake when times are good. Its when you can weather the stormy times, the disagreements, and respectfully remain together through them, that stronger bonds are formed. I, for one, am happy to be a part of this great group.
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    Percy
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Percy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:27 pm

    ziggy wrote:OK I told Heroine that I would be available to try my hand at it after finals April 18th. I'm volunteering (cuz I am THAT crazy) to start on a limited basis so now is your chance to tell her whether you think that's a bad idea or not. I kinda feel like I should contribute. I've enjoyed this group and would like to see us get through these foreseeable growing pains.

    My personal philosophy is to always fire a warning shot...


    You have my vote. The USMC fucked me all up, everything is a war to me. Not good mod material at all.


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    Percy
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Percy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:30 pm

    ericclimbs wrote:I would like to add that, though not everyone may, or may not have, agreed with past decisions, nor will necessarily agree with subsequent decisions, we are becoming stronger as a group for perservering through adversity. Relationships, even group relationships, are a piece of cake when times are good. Its when you can weather the stormy times, the disagreements, and respectfully remain together through them, that stronger bonds are formed. I, for one, am happy to be a part of this great group.


    Well said man. I agree entirely. I feel honored to be part of this very special group of people each who have their own unique opinions and insight yet have been able, for nearly a year now, to allow others to share theirs without making it personal. I did my part to keep this group together and I make no apologies for that but I do apologize for any toes I had to step on to accomplish it.


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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by ziggy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:43 pm

    Knowing you Pax, I knew you would be hardest on yourself. There was no fear from the board in commenting on it - more like compassion. It might have been a tad bit rash OK? but I like a take charge kind of man Smile

    Besides one who can recognzie and admit any of their shortcomings has my admiration. I will say it did bring all the back-seat-of-the-car bickering to a scckkkreeetching halt. Kind of like when my Dad said if we didn't stop picking at each other he was going to pull over and then by God he did - every time. You seriously pulled over but it's understood, forgiven by me and others I hope and I'm glad you will have more time to contribute.
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    Percy
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Percy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:45 pm

    ziggy wrote:Knowing you Pax, I knew you would be hardest on yourself. There was no fear from the board in commenting on it - more like compassion. It might have been a tad bit rash OK? but I like a take charge kind of man Smile

    Besides one who can recognzie and admit any of their shortcomings has my admiration. I will say it did bring all the back-seat-of-the-car bickering to a scckkkreeetching halt. Kind of like when my Dad said if we didn't stop picking at each other he was going to pull over and then by God he did - every time. You seriously pulled over but it's understood, forgiven by me and others I hope and I'm glad you will have more time to contribute.

    I think thats what hurts me the most is that there is a perception that there was some sort of fear to speak out against me and thats just silly. This isnt a gossipy group and to our credit we all waited and let leveler heads prevail before commenting and deciding how to proceed.


    I am going to go ahead and honor Heroine's request that we not continue to discuss what happened since what is done is done, anyone who wants to rip me a new one please feel free to PM me,I wont run away and I am prepared to face the music.


    That said, I see no reason why we cant use this thread for Blou's intended purpose to discuss how to learn from what happened and go forward as a better, stronger and more resolved community.


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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by ericclimbs on Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:58 pm

    What do you guys think about having a sticky with FAQs? Something that discusses our main reason for being here (the case) and our secondary reasons (off topic fun and general discussion) We appear to have two new members this afternoon.
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    Percy
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Percy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:00 pm

    ericclimbs wrote:What do you guys think about having a sticky with FAQs? Something that discusses are main reason for being here (the case) and our secondary reasons (off topic fun and general discussion) We appear to have two new members this afternoon.


    That sounds like a really good idea, if youd like to make one I am sure Heroine would make it a sticky for you. I think you know the drill and could work it properly for us all.


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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by ericclimbs on Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:04 pm

    Paximus wrote:
    ericclimbs wrote:What do you guys think about having a sticky with FAQs? Something that discusses are main reason for being here (the case) and our secondary reasons (off topic fun and general discussion) We appear to have two new members this afternoon.


    That sounds like a really good idea, if youd like to make one I am sure Heroine would make it a sticky for you. I think you know the drill and could work it properly for us all.
    I'm on it. I gotta go to work soon but I could probably submit something to Heroine by tomorrow afternoon. She, or anyone else for that matter, can peruse it and suggest changes/additions/deletions to what I come up with.
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    Re: We have a bit of a misunderstanding here

    Post by Percy on Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:05 pm

    ericclimbs wrote:
    Paximus wrote:
    ericclimbs wrote:What do you guys think about having a sticky with FAQs? Something that discusses are main reason for being here (the case) and our secondary reasons (off topic fun and general discussion) We appear to have two new members this afternoon.


    That sounds like a really good idea, if youd like to make one I am sure Heroine would make it a sticky for you. I think you know the drill and could work it properly for us all.
    I'm on it. I gotta go to work soon but I could probably submit something to Heroine by tomorrow afternoon. She, or anyone else for that matter, can peruse it and suggest changes/additions/deletions to what I come up with.

    Excellent, just post it and she can edit it or add to it as needed and make it a sticky, take your time man. Its a good idea.


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