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    You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

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    Percy
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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by Percy on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:17 pm

    Regarding the LEGAL TEST for evidence re: read SHARRON V BERRY, thats one of the landmark cases about this, can be read here:

    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


    Also check out, I think its FEDERAL RULE 403, that talks about this, if youre interested.

    Evidence CourseworkEXCLUSION OF
    PREJUDICIAL EVIDENCE

    At common law,
    judges have discretion to exclude evidence which is admissible. In Noor Mohammed
    v R , it was held that it would be unjust to admit evidence of a character
    gravely prejudicial to the accused even though there may be some tenuous ground
    for holding it technically admissible and the decision must be left to the
    discretion and the sense of fairness of the judge. In R v Sang , Lord Diplock
    gave an important obiter that the trial judge has a discretion to exclude the
    evidence where the prejudicial effect of evidence outweighs its probative value
    if its admission would result in an unfair trial. Another category of evidence
    that judges can also exercise discretion to exclude is those that are illegally
    or improperly obtained. But as far as this question is concerned, I will only
    focus on the exclusion of prejudicial evidence in the rest of the
    article.

    The discretion
    to exclude evidence unfairly prejudicial to the defence owes its existence
    partly to the judicial mistrust of jurors. Jurors may misuse the evidence in the
    sense that false inferences are drawn from the evidence or putting more weight
    on evidence than it deserves. When exercising the discretion, judges are
    required to balance the prejudicial effect of evidence against its probative
    value. But we must bear in mind that evidence which is prejudicial only in the
    sense that it incriminates the accused is not prejudicial for the purposes of
    the discretion.

    So how little
    probative value or how great prejudicial effect on the accused of a piece of
    evidence has can the judges exercise their discretion? In R v Christie , it was
    held that evidence should not be given if 'seriously prejudicial and of little
    value in its direct bearing of the case'. And in Noor Mohammed v R mentioned
    above, the evidence is of 'trifling weight' or 'gravely prejudicial character'
    though 'technically admissible'. Also in DPP v Boardman , Lord Salmon referred
    to the exclusion of evidence of 'minimal value'. Later on, a modified test
    emerged and evidence of considerable probative value could also be excluded
    provided that the prejudicial effect is substantial.

    The discretion
    to exclude evidence more prejudicial than probative can be applied to any type
    of admissible evidence. In the following, I will try to explain how the
    discretion operates in several different kinds of evidence.


    More here also:

    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



    Keep in mind that Probative Value vs Prejudicial Effect rulings are one of the most common things challenged in appeals cases.


    AE probably knows more about this off the top of his head than I do, keep in mind that I have only actually tried a few cases in my career as most of my legal work involves writing motions, developing case strategy and studying juries and consulting on jury selections (my personal specialty and what I am most sought out for). Because I have never been able to settle down and have my own legal practice due to us moving around a lot since I got out of law school I have spent most of my time doing free lance legal writing, case research, writing motions and briefs and consultation for other firms who request my services. I hope to start my own practice once we settle down in the future but for now I do well with what I am doing and the extent of my trial work at this time is mostly in DUI defense work.


    Last edited by Paximus on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:25 pm; edited 2 times in total


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    AndresEscobar

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by AndresEscobar on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:18 pm

    "and in here is where the heroin bore you
    And I also got a large pot of cigarette oil
    that's embalming fluid, illiterate are you?
    That's ok man I got the medicine for you"

    -- Lil wayne, "Walk Out"
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    blouAngel

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by blouAngel on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:19 pm

    Salvia divinorum is intense stuff. Very different from anything else I have ever experienced. I've tried it several times, but none was as mind bending as the first. It is not a recreational drug and made me question the foundations of reality to an extent that is very unsettling, although I would say ultimately liberating as well.
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    AndresEscobar

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by AndresEscobar on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:24 pm

    Paximus wrote:


    Keep in mind that Probative Value vs Prejudicial Effect rulings are one of the most common things challenged in appeals cases.

    And it's discretionary for the judge. And probative value finds itself in the actual bearing of the case, so the more it is tied to the crime the more probative value it has. So, for example, pictures of the murder scene are highly prejudicial, but are so related to the crime that they'd be admissible. Same thing with a murder weapon. Conversely, the more tenuous its connection to the crime the less probative value it has.
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    blouAngel

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by blouAngel on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:25 pm

    Paximus wrote:
    blouAngel wrote:
    Paximus wrote:James Brown has been busted several times recently over the last few years for using PCP laced marijuana, he totaly flipped his lid a few times over the last year as I recall, on it, beating his wife up etc.

    On another note, the big thing right now is marijuana laced with EMBALMING FLUID, a lot of the youth culture is in to that right now and has been for a few years as I understand and it, much like PCP laced marijuana is VERY BAD MOJO, makes you completely fucking crazy after using it for a while.

    Embalming fluid is slang for liquid PCP which cigarettes are dipped in. That's late 70's doper lingo. Seems to still be around.

    So are you saying nobody actually dips their weed in to actual embalming fluid and that when I hear that to be the case its really PCP? I am not sure if thats entirely true because I do know friends that told me they actually used embalming fluid although I dont question that it may be slang for PCP in some circles on the streets.


    More than you could ever want to know on the subject.
    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    PCP - 'Embalming Fluid' - 'Wet' - 'Fry'
    What Is It and What Do People Think It Is?

    There appears to be a current trend of the use of substances known alternately by the slang names 'embalming fluid', 'fry', 'formaldehyde', 'wet', 'water', or 'amp'. These are sold in a variety of forms including cannabis joints or regular cigarettes dipped in liquid and cannabis leaf or tea leaves dipped in liquid. In all of these forms, the material is then smoked. Despite the variety of names, there is good reason to believe that these are all various preparations containing PCP.

    In most instances PCP is not mentioned when the substance is sold or discussed. In fact, there are constantly re-circulating rumors that substances being sold by these names do not contain PCP, but are instead actually the fluid (formaldehyde) used for embalming as would be used in a mortuary. But there is evidence to support that this is primarily a case of confused slang terms. 'Embalming Fluid' is a common street slang term for PCP and has been for many years. PCP can come in liquid form, so the term 'fluid' is fitting. It is entirely possible (actually quite likely) that the confusion between PCP and embalming fluid (formaldehyde) has gone so far as to cause a new trend where PCP is actually mixed with formaldehye (or other 'embalming fluids') and used as a recreational psychoactive. But there is little evidence that the formaldehyde itself causes any pleasant or desirable effects.
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    AndresEscobar

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by AndresEscobar on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:26 pm

    Paximus wrote:

    AE probably knows more about this off the top of his head than I do, keep in mind that I have only actually tried a few cases in my career as most of my legal work involves writing motions, developing case strategy and studying juries and consulting on jury selections (my personal specialty and what I am most sought out for). Because I have never been able to settle down and have my own legal practice due to us moving around a lot since I got out of law school I have spent most of my time doing free lance legal writing, case research, writing motions and briefs and consultation for other firms who request my services. I hope to start my own practice once we settle down in the future but for now I do well with what I am doing.

    We're going to start that firm together, right? Wink
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    AndresEscobar

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by AndresEscobar on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:28 pm

    So, Blou, if someone says they was "smoking tea", are they probably doing PCP?
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    Percy
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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by Percy on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:29 pm

    AndresEscobar wrote:
    Paximus wrote:

    AE probably knows more about this off the top of his head than I do, keep in mind that I have only actually tried a few cases in my career as most of my legal work involves writing motions, developing case strategy and studying juries and consulting on jury selections (my personal specialty and what I am most sought out for). Because I have never been able to settle down and have my own legal practice due to us moving around a lot since I got out of law school I have spent most of my time doing free lance legal writing, case research, writing motions and briefs and consultation for other firms who request my services. I hope to start my own practice once we settle down in the future but for now I do well with what I am doing.

    We're going to start that firm together, right? Wink
    Dude that would be a lot of fun and I certainly wouldnt rule that out, I love Chicago.


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    blouAngel

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by blouAngel on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:31 pm

    AndresEscobar wrote:"and in here is where the heroin bore you
    And I also got a large pot of cigarette oil
    that's embalming fluid, illiterate are you?
    That's ok man I got the medicine for you"

    -- Lil wayne, "Walk Out"

    Lil Wayne drinks and raps about this nasty shit. I can see someone who would do that thinking that PCP seems like a good idea.
    From our wiki friends-
    "Purple drank is a slang term for a recreational drug popular in the hip hop community in the southern United States. Its main ingredient is prescription-strength cough syrup containing codeine and promethazine.[1] Cough syrup is typically mixed with ingredients such as 7Up soft drink and pieces of Jolly Rancher candy. The purplish hue of purple drank comes from dyes in the cough syrup."
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    blouAngel

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by blouAngel on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:34 pm

    AndresEscobar wrote:So, Blou, if someone says they was "smoking tea", are they probably doing PCP?

    I used to hear that meaning regular weed. I moved several times when I was a kid and found slang to be very different depending on where I lived. My guess is that it could mean either or both, depending on race, class, and/or region.
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    AndresEscobar

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by AndresEscobar on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:36 pm

    blouAngel wrote:

    Lil Wayne drinks and raps about this nasty shit. I can see someone who would do that thinking that PCP seems like a good idea.
    From our wiki friends-
    "Purple drank is a slang term for a recreational drug popular in the hip hop community in the southern United States. Its main ingredient is prescription-strength cough syrup containing codeine and promethazine.[1] Cough syrup is typically mixed with ingredients such as 7Up soft drink and pieces of Jolly Rancher candy. The purplish hue of purple drank comes from dyes in the cough syrup."

    Oh yes, Purple drank. Also called "Sizzurp". Killed Pimp C, if I recall correctly.
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    Percy
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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by Percy on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:38 pm

    blouAngel wrote:
    AndresEscobar wrote:"and in here is where the heroin bore you
    And I also got a large pot of cigarette oil
    that's embalming fluid, illiterate are you?
    That's ok man I got the medicine for you"

    -- Lil wayne, "Walk Out"


    Lil Wayne drinks and raps about this nasty shit. I can see someone who would do that thinking that PCP seems like a good idea.
    From our wiki friends-
    "Purple drank is a slang term for a recreational drug popular in the hip hop community in the southern United States. Its main ingredient is prescription-strength cough syrup containing codeine and promethazine.[1] Cough syrup is typically mixed with ingredients such as 7Up soft drink and pieces of Jolly Rancher candy. The purplish hue of purple drank comes from dyes in the cough syrup."



    That purple drank shit is popular here with the minority youth culture,
    crazy, in fact I cant remember where I read it or what the name of it is
    but I think Coca Cola is now coming out with a product that is very
    similar to purple drank, it is clearly targeting that crowd and it is
    even supposed to have some legal chemical in it that gives you similar
    effects that purple drank does. I think this product is out now, I will
    have to look around, I read about it on another forum a few weeks ago. The can is even purple as I understand it, the product itself may even be called DRANK if I recall correctly and I am pretty sure Coca Cola company is behind it.


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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by Percy on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:41 pm

    Purple drank is confirmed or suspected to have caused the deaths of several
    prominent users. Respiratory depression is a potentially serious or fatal
    adverse drug reaction associated with the use of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], but mainly the danger lies in the much more
    potent and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]-[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    phenothiazine-related antihistamine promethazine. This depression is
    dose-related and is the mechanism for the potentially fatal consequences of
    overdose: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. As with most CNS depressants,
    mixing with alcohol greatly increases the risk of respiratory failure and other
    complications.
    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], who popularized the
    codeine-based drink, died of a codeine-promethazine-[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] overdose
    on November 15, 2000, several months after the video to Three 6 Mafia's single
    debuted.[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], a DJ Screw protegé whose
    albums City of
    Syrup
    and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] were based on the drink
    and who has been described as having "rapped incessantly about the drug,"[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] died at age
    33 on October 14, 2007, after suffering a [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] one week earlier
    that left him in a [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    There was speculation that purple drank may have contributed to his death. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], widely influential Port Arthur,
    Texas
    rapper and a member of rap duo [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
    was found dead on December 4, 2007, at the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in West
    Hollywood, California
    . The Los Angeles County [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]'s office reported that the rapper's death was
    "due to promethazine/codeine effects and other unestablished factors." Ed
    Winter, assistant chief of the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]'s office, said the levels of the medication
    were elevated, but not enough to deem the death an overdose. However, Pimp C had
    a history of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], a
    condition that causes one to stop breathing for short periods during sleep. A
    spokesman for the coroner's office said that the combination of sleep apnea and
    cough medication probably suppressed Pimp C's breathing long enough to bring on
    his death.[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Several legal commercial products loosely based on "purple drank" are marketed
    in the United States. In June 2008
    Innovative
    Beverage Group
    , a [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] based in
    Houston (Other OTC:IBGH.PK), released a beverage called "[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]." The commercial product contains no codeine
    or promethazine, but claims to "Slow Your Roll" with a combination of herbal
    ingredients such as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and rose hips as well as the
    hormone [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Similar
    "relaxation" or "anti-energy" drinks on the commercial market use the names
    "Purple Stuff" and "Sippin Syrup"



    WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE DOING TO OUR CHILDREN THAT WE PRODUCE AND SELL THIS SORT OF CRAP, UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE.


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    AndresEscobar

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by AndresEscobar on Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:50 pm

    It's called capitalism, Pax.

    (phew, glad the RLC kids aren't around to see that. I'd hate to be called a pinko).
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    Percy
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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by Percy on Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:08 pm

    AndresEscobar wrote:It's called capitalism, Pax.

    (phew, glad the RLC kids aren't around to see that. I'd hate to be called a pinko).
    Yea only the most braindead capitalistic pigs could defend that sort of shit. I am not for telling people what they can and cannot do but to market purple drank to kids legally just really sits wrong with me, even though its not the same stuff the idea is exactly the same and it makes it sound as if the whole purple drank thing itself is ok and cool. When it is everything but, opiate addiction is nothing to laugh about, its one of the worst addictions there is.


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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by AndresEscobar on Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:15 pm

    Paximus wrote:
    AndresEscobar wrote:It's called capitalism, Pax.

    (phew, glad the RLC kids aren't around to see that. I'd hate to be called a pinko).
    Yea only the most braindead capitalistic pigs could defend that sort of shit. I am not for telling people what they can and cannot do but to market purple drank to kids legally just really sits wrong with me, even though its not the same stuff the idea is exactly the same and it makes it sound as if the whole purple drank thing itself is ok and cool. When it is everything but, opiate addiction is nothing to laugh about, its one of the worst addictions there is.

    There was a crack themed energy drink that was put on the market (Specifically on the southside). It drew enough ire in the press to have it banned pretty quickly.
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    Percy
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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by Percy on Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:17 pm

    Christ, what have we become. Used to be candy cigarettes now crack cocaine themed drinks for kids. What a fucked up world. And yes, they specifically market this shit in the ghettos.


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    AndresEscobar

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by AndresEscobar on Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:25 pm

    Paximus wrote:Christ, what have we become. Used to be candy cigarettes now crack cocaine themed drinks for kids. What a fucked up world. And yes, they specifically market this shit in the ghettos.

    I remember specifically that it had an ingredient that made your lips numb.
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    ziggy

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by ziggy on Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:37 pm

    I am jumping from the Sarah ThiZZle thread to stay on topic...Pax - even if the cops had checked the rest of the house I do believe they were all dead at that point. No lives could have been saved.

    I agree it was the kind of police work that will bring everything into question regarding their broad negligence, lax standards etc.
    Still, Sam was at the home, they will determine time of death and he will have no alibi and plenty of blood on his hands so to speak. His actions of staying at the crime scene and calling the cops may hurt him - but it could help him by establishing that he was mentally ill, otherwise he would have left earlier...he was insane at that time.

    Will be interesting to see his psych eval. By the way am I correct that being diagnosed a psychopath does not make you eligible for NGI? That's just anti-social and not in a class that will mitigate the crime for him.
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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by dangrsmind on Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:15 pm

    There's a company marketing an "anti-energy drink" under the Drank name. FWIW.

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    Percy
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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by Percy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:35 am

    ziggy wrote:I am jumping from the Sarah ThiZZle thread to stay on topic...Pax - even if the cops had checked the rest of the house I do believe they were all dead at that point. No lives could have been saved.

    I agree it was the kind of police work that will bring everything into question regarding their broad negligence, lax standards etc.
    Still, Sam was at the home, they will determine time of death and he will have no alibi and plenty of blood on his hands so to speak. His actions of staying at the crime scene and calling the cops may hurt him - but it could help him by establishing that he was mentally ill, otherwise he would have left earlier...he was insane at that time.

    Will be interesting to see his psych eval. By the way am I correct that being diagnosed a psychopath does not make you eligible for NGI? That's just anti-social and not in a class that will mitigate the crime for him.


    In most cases NGI is for axis I mental disorders, axis II mental disorders are personality disorders such as sociopathy etc, I have been a big advocate for more studies in to axis II disorders as there is little funding and even less treatment for those who suffer from axis II disorders and most therapists wont even take on patients who suffer from them believing, wrongfully in my opinion, that they cannot be treated. They are difficult people to deal with and I can understand why a therapist wouldnt want to deal with them since those suffering from axis II disorders are often more intelligent and crafty than the therapists themselves which usually results in the therapist being manipulated and exploited to the point of exhaustion. But I still think we need to invest more funding and find more treatments for those who suffer from axis II disorders.


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    claudicici

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by claudicici on Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:23 am

    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    ...is this something that can be somehow used to his defense?..this is what I think is going on with sam...can he be somehow NOT tried as an adult because I don't think he ever made it to that stage...by understanding sam I think we must think as a child...by undrstanding sam I think we must understand what his mom demanded...
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    Metzgermeister

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by Metzgermeister on Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:51 am

    AndresEscobar wrote:The prejudice of the music and jesus statements outweigh the probative value of allowing them in the trial.

    Very well said.
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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by dangrsmind on Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:34 am

    It seems for the sake of fairness and symmetry we also need a PROSECUTE Sam topic.
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    AndresEscobar

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    Re: You're Sam's criminal defense attorney--DEFEND HIM

    Post by AndresEscobar on Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:28 am

    dangrsmind wrote:It seems for the sake of fairness and symmetry we also need a PROSECUTE Sam topic.

    But, that's easy.

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