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    Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

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    Percy
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by Percy on Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:51 pm

    Scary Mary wrote:I found out who Metz got her information from but I haven't contacted said person yet. If/when I do I'll let you guys know what they had to say about that.
    And don't forget Pax, the date has been changed from the 20th to sometime in June.


    Oh I didnt know they changed it Mary I have been out of the loop for a few weeks with a sick baby so thanks for that, the fact that they changed it to june makes the info that I have even more credible because june was specifically indicated as a month of importance.

    We shall see.


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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by AndresEscobar on Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:52 pm

    GONZO wrote:
    Did you all see the latest post at websleuths from Metzgermistester? She said she confirmed from a close friend of Sam that he did indeed take and send pictures of the crime scene out to his friends and that the police are working towards finding those people so they can be prosecuted. I dont know if its true or not but she said anyone can PM her and she will tell them who told her this. I havent yet myself.


    I just looked at this myself. Here's my question: prosecuted for what? Accessory to murder? Then the DA would have to prove that these mystery people who received these pictures knew they were authentic. And that they did something to aid and abet him after the murders.

    And, 8 month after the murders, they haven't been able to figure out to whom Sam allegedly sent these photos? Or, at least haven't charged these people?

    Nah. I'm skeptical.
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by Percy on Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:11 pm

    I agree, it would only take about ten minutes for a computer forensic excpert to track and locate who recieved those pictures, so I dont know what to make of all of this myself. I suppose, depending on state law, that they could be charged with something for having the pics and not coming forward but I am not exactly sure what such charges would be and how well they would stick. I think, just sitting here considering all of this, that I could easily argue such a case and get charges such as these dropped pretty easily.


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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by piXy on Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:47 pm

    Please let me know who in a PM or something bc puzzle pieces could be put together more im sure if i knew who he could have sent pics to
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by piXy on Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:49 pm

    GONZO wrote:I agree, it would only take about ten minutes for a computer forensic excpert to track and locate who recieved those pictures, so I dont know what to make of all of this myself. I suppose, depending on state law, that they could be charged with something for having the pics and not coming forward but I am not exactly sure what such charges would be and how well they would stick. I think, just sitting here considering all of this, that I could easily argue such a case and get charges such as these dropped pretty easily.

    Couldnt also people who he could have sent pics to be a victim too in a sense. I could see them being charged if they asked sam to send them but not just him sending pics out to whoever..... does this make sense, im running on lack of sleep lol
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    dangrsmind

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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by dangrsmind on Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:00 pm

    It depends on when he sent the pictures...before Mark was killed perhaps? In that case a murder might have been prevented.
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by Percy on Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:11 pm

    dangrsmind wrote:It depends on when he sent the pictures...before Mark was killed perhaps? In that case a murder might have been prevented.
    Excellent point and if THAT is the case then someone or several people could be in deep shit since as you say, a life could have possibly been saved.


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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by Percy on Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:14 pm

    piXy wrote:
    GONZO wrote:I agree, it would only take about ten minutes for a computer forensic excpert to track and locate who recieved those pictures, so I dont know what to make of all of this myself. I suppose, depending on state law, that they could be charged with something for having the pics and not coming forward but I am not exactly sure what such charges would be and how well they would stick. I think, just sitting here considering all of this, that I could easily argue such a case and get charges such as these dropped pretty easily.
    Well that could certainly be argued, it all depends like DM suggests, on when they got them and what their reaction was to them, the right way to react to that would be to contact authorities immediately if they in fact knew that the murders had taken place and the pics were authentic and the time they recieved them.
    Couldnt also people who he could have sent pics to be a victim too in a sense. I could see them being charged if they asked sam to send them but not just him sending pics out to whoever..... does this make sense, im running on lack of sleep lol


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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by Percy on Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:15 pm

    GONZO wrote:
    piXy wrote:
    GONZO wrote:I agree, it would only take about ten minutes for a computer forensic excpert to track and locate who recieved those pictures, so I dont know what to make of all of this myself. I suppose, depending on state law, that they could be charged with something for having the pics and not coming forward but I am not exactly sure what such charges would be and how well they would stick. I think, just sitting here considering all of this, that I could easily argue such a case and get charges such as these dropped pretty easily.
    .
    Couldnt also people who he could have sent pics to be a victim too in a sense. I could see them being charged if they asked sam to send them but not just him sending pics out to whoever..... does this make sense, im running on lack of sleep lol



    Well that could certainly be argued, it all depends like DM suggests, on when they got them and what their reaction was to them, the right way to react to that would be to contact authorities immediately if they in fact knew that the murders had taken place and the pics were authentic and the time they recieved them



    CHECK PM PIXY.


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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by dangrsmind on Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:20 am

    Even if they have no case, the police might pursue some of these people just to prove a point. For example, see the recent MySpace suicide case where Lori Drew was forced to defend herself in California against cyber-bullying and computer intrusion charges. She prevailed in that case, but I doubt she would recommend the experience to others.
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    Kay

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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by Kay on Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:57 pm

    Is it illegal to just know about a crime that has already been committed? If someone sent me a picture of a body and they said they killed that person -- do I have a duty to do anything?
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    AndresEscobar

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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by AndresEscobar on Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:25 am

    Kay wrote:Is it illegal to just know about a crime that has already been committed? If someone sent me a picture of a body and they said they killed that person -- do I have a duty to do anything?

    No.
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    the tapu

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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by the tapu on Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:36 am

    No one who may have received pictures from Sam of his dead victims would ever be prosecuted for anything.

    The only thing I can think of that he might have sent out that may be construed as illegal to own would be a "snuff film" of what he did. Even then, if he sent it to them, unsolicited, then they're still not prosecutable for anything, I wouldn't think.

    Andres, what do you think of the snuff film angle? Still nothing there, right?


    p.s. hi, kay!!
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by AndresEscobar on Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:19 pm

    the tapu wrote:No one who may have received pictures from Sam of his dead victims would ever be prosecuted for anything.

    The only thing I can think of that he might have sent out that may be construed as illegal to own would be a "snuff film" of what he did. Even then, if he sent it to them, unsolicited, then they're still not prosecutable for anything, I wouldn't think.

    Andres, what do you think of the snuff film angle? Still nothing there, right?


    p.s. hi, kay!!

    Crime has two elements: act requirements (doing something illegal) and state of mind requirements (mens rea, or the guilty mind). If someone sends you something unsolicited, then the mere receipt of that does not give you the correct mens rea to have committed a crime. That's not to say one couldn't develop the requisite mens rea. But, in this case, it would require actually knowledge that these images were authentic AND doing something to aid and abet Sam, doing something to cover up the crime, etc.

    Even if Virginia has some sort of state law requiring people to report crimes, the state would have to prove that the recipients KNEW these photos to be authentic. You see the problem with that: these people took photos of themselves covered in fake blood and stuff all the time.
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    Percy
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by Percy on Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:25 pm

    AndresEscobar wrote:
    the tapu wrote:No one who may have received pictures from Sam of his dead victims would ever be prosecuted for anything.

    The only thing I can think of that he might have sent out that may be construed as illegal to own would be a "snuff film" of what he did. Even then, if he sent it to them, unsolicited, then they're still not prosecutable for anything, I wouldn't think.

    Andres, what do you think of the snuff film angle? Still nothing there, right?


    p.s. hi, kay!!

    Crime has two elements: act requirements (doing something illegal) and state of mind requirements (mens rea, or the guilty mind). If someone sends you something unsolicited, then the mere receipt of that does not give you the correct mens rea to have committed a crime. That's not to say one couldn't develop the requisite mens rea. But, in this case, it would require actually knowledge that these images were authentic AND doing something to aid and abet Sam, doing something to cover up the crime, etc.

    Even if Virginia has some sort of state law requiring people to report crimes, the state would have to prove that the recipients KNEW these photos to be authentic. You see the problem with that: these people took photos of themselves covered in fake blood and stuff all the time.

    Assuming these people actually retain competent representation, sure. But the police could still go after them, as DM says, to make a point, IF they recieved these photos or films BEFORE Mark's death, suggesting that a murder may have been prevented.


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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by Guest on Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:17 pm

    http://leg1.state.va.us/000/src.htm
    This is the searchable database for the code of Virginia. I am not an attorney but I could not find anything in there that provided a duty to report a crime. It would obviously be the right thing to do I am just not convinced there was a legal obligation there and without the legal obligation I am not sure how the Commonwealth pursues this case.
    I reviewed the statue for "accessory after the fact" as well and it does not seem to fit either. Merely having evidence of the crime does not necessarily mean the individual receiving the pictures did anything to assist Sam.
    This of course all assumes that pictures were sent out and I am not convinced at this point that they were.


    Last edited by Scott on Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by the tapu on Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:50 pm

    the tapu wrote:No one who may have received pictures from Sam of his dead victims would ever be prosecuted for anything.
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by Percy on Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:16 pm

    Scott wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
    This is the searchable database for the code of Virginia. I am not an attorney but I could not find anything in there that provided a duty to report a crime. It would obviously be the right thing to do I am just not convinced there was a legal obligation there and without the legal obligation I am not sure how the Commonwealth pursues this case.
    I reviewed the statue for "accessory after the fact" as well and it does not seem to fit either. Merely having evidence of the crime does not necessarily mean the individual receiving the pictures did anything to assist Sam.
    This of course all assumes that pictures were sent out and I am not convinced at this point that they were.
    Its difficult to speak with any authority on the matter without knowing all the facts but depending on what the pics showed, for example, Emma was a minor, if there were pics of her naked corpse for example, that could result in an attempt to prosecute, not that it would stick. Also, if those who recieved those photos in turn sent them to others, that could be a problem.

    Further, keep in mind if any of these characters were questioned by police about prior knowledge and denied it and then the authorities found out they had pics, they would absolutely be prosecuted.

    Again, without all the facts we do not know what they can or cannot or will or will not pursue.

    Also, I am not entirely certain state law applies here, this could fall in to Federal jurisdiction since those who possibly recieved said photos reside in different states.

    I am not a Federal attorney but I do know that under Federal law one does have an obligation to report (Federal) felonies of which one has knowledge. So far as I know, no state has anything equivalent.


    Last edited by Gonzo on Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:27 pm; edited 3 times in total


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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by Percy on Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:19 pm

    the tapu wrote:
    the tapu wrote:No one who may have received pictures from Sam of his dead victims would ever be prosecuted for anything.
    That might be the safe bet but you cant be sure unless you know all the facts, and we do not, so I still say it is possible, perhaps unlikely, but possible, depending on many factors.

    I would also like to add that I dont think anyone should be prosecuted for it, I dont support those kinds of witch hunts. IF it were a snuff film or something, thats different though.


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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by dangrsmind on Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:34 pm

    I think the Lori Drew case is illustrative of how far a prosecutor will go to get someone they think is in the wrong even when the law clearly doesn't support it.

    And Lori Drew was prosecuted in California in relation to events that occurred in Missouri simply because MySpace's servers are located in California and the company is based here.

    Again, this prosecution failed, she was not found guilty, but I don't think it was fun and she had to retain counsel and travel to California to defend herself.
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by Kay on Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:34 pm

    dangrsmind wrote:I think the Lori Drew case is illustrative of how far a prosecutor will go to get someone they think is in the wrong even when the law clearly doesn't support it.

    And Lori Drew was prosecuted in California in relation to events that occurred in Missouri simply because MySpace's servers are located in California and the company is based here.

    Again, this prosecution failed, she was not found guilty, but I don't think it was fun and she had to retain counsel and travel to California to defend herself.

    I thought she was found guilty but then the judge overturned the verdict.
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by claudicici on Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:18 pm

    I'm sorry but I think she should have been found guilty,what kind of so called adult would do that to a child?
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by dangrsmind on Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:28 pm

    Kay wrote:
    dangrsmind wrote:I think the Lori Drew case is illustrative of how far a prosecutor will go to get someone they think is in the wrong even when the law clearly doesn't support it.

    And Lori Drew was prosecuted in California in relation to events that occurred in Missouri simply because MySpace's servers are located in California and the company is based here.

    Again, this prosecution failed, she was not found guilty, but I don't think it was fun and she had to retain counsel and travel to California to defend herself.

    I thought she was found guilty but then the judge overturned the verdict.

    You are correct. I was speaking imprecisely, apologies. See [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    My point was forced to pay for her defense in a trial in California for an action that wasn't even illegal.
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by dangrsmind on Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:31 pm

    claudicici wrote:I'm sorry but I think she should have been found guilty,what kind of so called adult would do that to a child?

    She's obviously a bitch, but that isn't a crime.
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    Re: Petition Hopes to Bring Justice To Homicide Case

    Post by claudicici on Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:48 pm

    ...to pretend to be a little boy that loves a little girl and then put her down?..I think that's a little more than being a bitch,I really can't even comprehend it because I don't believe in "evil" people,but I can't even think of what would make someone do that?...

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