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    SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Fri May 14, 2010 3:54 am

    holy **** thanks for that mary 10 to 20 would be a ****ing miracle and i sort of hope he gets a chance to start a new life and i know i will get ripped a new one on here by some folks but thats just me i have compassion for the kid and i hope he doesnt get the dp but if he told you that then certainly his lawyer must know something we dont because virginia dont play games so something must be up and it is perhaps a plea deal.

    Also i am ****ing pissed off at his family and esp his ****ing sister writing only to ask for his ****, what kind of people are they for chrissake.

    Excuse my french.

    You rock mary and keep throwing us bones baby!
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Fri May 14, 2010 3:56 am

    I found this editorial about the death penalty becoming less common in Virginia. No one has been sentenced to death since March 2008.

    Richmond Times-Dispatch
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Fri May 14, 2010 4:00 am

    Interesting. What happened to Sarah's theory that he was innocent?
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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Mon May 17, 2010 4:32 am

    Originally Posted by ziggy
    Thanks Andres. Maybe it's just my propensity toward a prosecutor's brain, but I can't find any mitigating factors here for second degree murder.
    Virginia Code § 18.2-31
    http://law.justia.com/virginia/codes...0/18.2-31.html

    Can a defense of insanity allow a mitigation to second degree murder? Help a 1L sista out here.

    Not sure I really want to stir the pot about this, but 1st degree murder requires premeditation. We don't know what happened. There are certain defenses that wipe away premeditation. Maybe he has one?
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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Mon May 17, 2010 4:32 am

    Originally Posted by peace_gurl
    10 to 20? No Way. A local lawyer killed his wife. He got life. What do you think the commonwealth will do to Sam?
    Hang him? Ahh crap, we dont do that any more. I supose the state of VA will just have to do the lethal injection.

    (BTW, i dont advicate hanging people, i could see people connecting that to the souther state thing lol.)

    Oh, and i agree with both people who say Virginia is a southern state AND the one that says its not. I would say southern virginia is a completely different place from northern virgnia. COMPLETELY different.
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Mon May 17, 2010 4:34 am

    I hear about Sam in jail and how his family has abandoned him, and I start to feel a bit of sympathy - then I realize it's not really for just Sam, it's for all kids who have never felt love. I'll allow myself that sorrow. Yes it's sad for Sam and many others. Then I remember that he most likely did not just snap and kill some people- no - it was a bit more horrific and brutal and I am not sure I'm ready to feel sorry for him in regards to taking away four innocent lives in such a brutal manner. I mean HE wiped out a family - and now two, including his own, I suppose.

    There are those born into this life who know their place, their gift. Some of you are compassionate, caretakers, God Bless you, but I think it takes all kinds and I've been born a warrior spirit somehow and I feel the need to keep reminding everyone about 4 lives taken, about a kid who, LIKE MANY KIDS, may have had it rough, but these acts are not excusable because of his hardship in youth. It’s not about revenge, it’s about accountability.
    If I were a parent I know I’d be just as strict as dangrs – I’ll bet many of you raise your children to take some accountability for their actions and to have consequences so that they may form the ability to outweigh risk and understand that there will ALWAYS be someone or some institution that will have the final word; get used to it baby.

    The state now has to hold Sam accountable. I completely understand the compassion and even get a twinge myself, but I’ll save it for the real needy people who have not let their crappy lives turn them into monsters. Put aside what the penalty is – it’s still a penalty for his actions and whether we like it or not , taking Sam out of society for the good of others is what must happen. What’s the darn difference if he lives in a cage or dies? The point is to remove him from society…and I don’t get how caging someone for possibly 60 years is in any way humane.

    As for Sarah, she’s just as lost on what being a human is as Sam…common denominator? That’s right. Funny we focus on Debra and Mark. I’m really pissed off at Sam’s parents right now and wondering about their accountability in all this. Seems they’ve managed to escape the bright light but why? I think their lack of good parenting hurt a kid who hurt others and the least they could do is own up, geez.
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Mon May 17, 2010 4:35 am

    re: Mary and the 10-20 years comment

    10-20 is typical sentencing for second degree murder, or, non premeditated murder.
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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Mon May 17, 2010 4:37 am

    Originally Posted by AndresEscobar
    Not sure I really want to stir the pot about this, but 1st degree murder requires premeditation. We don't know what happened. There are certain defenses that wipe away premeditation. Maybe he has one?
    Yeah , but , he stacked the bodies , like , FOUR HIGH.


    That's calling for some severe punishment.

    Anyways , first the guy thinks that the other inmates are like family . Now he thinks he is going to be out in a decade or two.

    Not so fast , Ginger !
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Mon May 17, 2010 7:20 am

    Originally Posted by Farmvillian
    Yeah! We have one of these. Some people call it Holiday lake. Happy Holidays everyone. Big month coming up. Anyone want to predict how it is going to go down?
    My prediction: doesn't go to trial, plea deal is life with (edited to add: MAYBE) eligibility for parole in 30 years.
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Wed May 26, 2010 4:41 am

    Maybe they meant 10-20 years in a Mental Institution?? I would think they would try to go that route.. seems it would be the only way to keep him alive in the good old Commonwealth.
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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Wed May 26, 2010 4:55 am

    This just in:
    "Farmville Murder Suspect Seeks Psychologist"

    http://www.nbc12.com/Global/story.asp?S=11800328
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Wed May 26, 2010 4:57 am

    Originally Posted by RockDawg
    Dang ! That was a skimpy article ( but thanks for the post ).

    I guess the attorney is just posturing and doing what he has to do.

    You'll never convince me ( or any jurist ) that Sam is crazy.

    If you or I snap and kill someone tomorrow , we might be able to go with some type of insanity or mental health defect issues. But Sam with his horrorcore , wont be able to pull it off.

    For illustration , suppose I come up with a type rap called

    "BANKROBBACORE" in which I and perhaps some others , rap about robbing banks , atm tipping , and clipping all manner of financial institutions.

    Might be on youtube and have my own website.

    Flashforward to a bank robbery in my home town. Suppose four blocks away I get stopped from said bank just after the deed goes down , with ink dye on my clothes and a curiously empty money sack.

    Question : Am I guilty ?
    Answer : Of course !

    Now I can have an attorney argue all kinds of things. But between my rappin' and the ink dye , you know all you need to know.

    And especially if you say "Alan Greenspan told me to do it."
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Wed May 26, 2010 4:58 am

    It is common practice to first see a psychologist/therapist to get a diagnoses and then if it is determined you need medicine you are further referred to a psychiatrist.
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Thu May 27, 2010 4:17 am

    Originally Posted by ziggy
    Intersting and thanks. I found a paper on the web that is not in support of this...just linking it to read later and will ask about it in class tonight regarding CA law.

    I guess the difficulty is trying to get jurors to understand the level of insanity, which I can see as something very hard to prove and would it seem like the crazier the crime, the crazier the perp? In Sam's case it could seem that whoever is responsible for the murders was either totally crazy or just evil.

    It seems like it's the only defense here but I have a hard time distinguishing between pure character flaw or evil intent and mentally insane, which is why I probably would NOT agree with a GBMI pleading and the chaos it might create with jury instruction etc.

    I don't think everyone who intends to kill is insane and I think we ought to leave the insanity defense to the real nuts and not extend it to mere bad eggs.

    Well, there's a lot of hand wringing over the fact that criminals that are potentially dangerous and certainly insane may one day get out of whereever they're thrown if they are successful in their their insanity defense. The argument being: this person is certainly guilty, but is insane, therefore they should be put in a mental health facility for some time before deciding how much time they should spend in jail. Again, it depends on whether you think prisoners should be rehabilitated or simply punished.

    In my experience, I think most Americans subscribe to the retribution aspects of punishment. Websleuths has confirmed that for me.
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Thu May 27, 2010 4:19 am

    Yes indeed, if there is a trial I am sure we will hear all about the forensic evidence; and sad to say it will probably be a popular trial because of the gruesome nature of the killings etc. Regardless of how disrespectful that may seem to the victims, I do want justice for Emma, Mel, Debra and Mark...FOUR lives violently taken; stolen from them and from their families.

    It's interesting that Pax and Andres feel that society is in decay because people would like criminals to be punished and I feel society starts to degrade when we think everything bad is a "disease" that can be cured and fail to recognize that some people are the equivalent of cancer cells in our communities.

    Seriously, of all the diseases there are, how many has medicine actually cured? Likewise with the rehabilitation. Now, as JUVENILLES, I think we totally drop the ball when treating them like adult criminals...that is when the intervention could actually make a huge difference and I would support more money for an overhaul of the juvenile justice system.
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Thu May 27, 2010 4:37 am

    Originally Posted by NativeGirl
    you murder someone and take away their life, you deserve to die to me its as simple as that.
    I think the decision to kill someone shouldn't ever be made simple especially when it is state sanctioned killing. And similar to some of the other posters here I wonder about the future of our society where so many of us seem to find killing someone an easy "no brainer" answer to a such a wide variety of problems.

    I am not say that Sam should get to enjoy his life if he is found guilty.

    And I don't think that is what is going to happen either.
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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Thu May 27, 2010 4:39 am

    Originally Posted by NativeGirl
    you murder someone and take away their life, you deserve to die to me its as simple as that.
    I'm not really looking to debate this, it's just a fundamental difference of opinion. I respect your opinion and we can all still be friends.

    ETA: I believe in the death penalty in certain instances, specifically terrorism and mass murders. What troubles me most about the death penalty is how often they get the wrong guy. Those numbers are startling
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Fri May 28, 2010 1:48 am

    I am pondering why any lab results would have a bearing on delaying a hearing for the purpose of simply setting a trial date...more motions in store prior to the hearing?

    I am sure there are plenty of tests yet be completed because I do believe they had quite a bit of forensic evidence to go over. I don't think we got the entire search warrant list.

    Bowen's need for a psych eval tips his hand right there don't you think? Or he needs time to catch up on all these threads?
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Sun May 30, 2010 12:51 am

    Originally Posted by Farmvillian
    http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/ne...223408/318048/

    In the news.

    Seems likely that Sam's attorney has been following this Burns case...
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    claudicici

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    Re: SPECULATIONS ABOUT TRIAL/PLEA/PUNISHMENT

    Post by claudicici on Sun May 30, 2010 12:53 am


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