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    Sam in court today September 20, 2010

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    ericclimbs

    Posts : 246
    Join date : 2010-02-16
    Location : CA

    Re: Sam in court today September 20, 2010

    Post by ericclimbs on Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:00 pm

    It could be argued, in our flawed human world, that "the greatest good" principle could be applied to this argument. As in how many killers were eventually set free (after serving their sentence) to kill again. And is this number of murdered innocents greater or less than those possibly killed by the state. As in, innocent people will die but which way causes the least amount of innocent people to die?

    It is, indeed, an extremely complicated argument.
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    ziggy

    Posts : 950
    Join date : 2010-02-16
    Age : 56
    Location : Sonoma County CA

    Re: Sam in court today September 20, 2010

    Post by ziggy on Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:14 pm

    Scott wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    Partial list and brief description of executed inmates that died with significant questions of guilt still remaining.

    Significant questions of guilt is different than innocent; just as a "not guilty" verdict does not mean "innocent". Just saying. It's not at any epidemic proportion and in fact I don't think anyone can give me an example of a for sure innocent being executed.

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    Guest

    Re: Sam in court today September 20, 2010

    Post by Guest on Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:28 pm

    ziggy wrote:
    Scott wrote:http://www.justicedenied.org/executed.htm

    Partial list and brief description of executed inmates that died with significant questions of guilt still remaining.

    Significant questions of guilt is different than innocent; just as a "not guilty" verdict does not mean "innocent". Just saying. It's not at any epidemic proportion and in fact I don't think anyone can give me an example of a for sure innocent being executed.

    Very true counselor. Not guilty does not necessarily = innocent.

    I will concede that MOST people sentenced for a crime [whatever that sentence is] did it. There are occassions of wrongfully convicted but they are the exception. We can argue about what the appropriate penalty is.

    Still the system is imperfect. I hold concerns about closing off that door to the possibilty of correcting a mistake should one be discovered.
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    claudicici

    Posts : 1259
    Join date : 2010-02-16

    Re: Sam in court today September 20, 2010

    Post by claudicici on Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:59 pm

    @ maunsapt....I 100% agree with your last post.Prevention has to start at school.
    It really is so often that ONE person,that ONE teacher,that ONE family member that makes all the difference in someones life.
    @ southernvagirl.....you've said it yourself,you had your grandmother to teach you values and to make you feel valuable.
    @ ziggy....sure there are true sociopaths but I believe we throw that word around way too much.I don't think Sam is a sociopaths and I don't think people are born that way.
    If a professional in the system early on would have recognized how severely depressed that kid was,how he was literally sitting in a deep dark hole,I bet it could have made a difference.
    I see Sarah with the same upbringing still struggling.Her whole life seems to be falling and trying to pick herself back up.
    @Eric....glad you're back,I've missed you !
    @Scott....totally agree with the changes you would make.
    STOP OVERCROWDING PRISONS WITH NON VIOLENT DRUG OFFENDERS.
    Legalize pot & prostitution.Possession of harder drugs is a matter of rehab not a jail sentence.
    Take a life is mandatory life sentence without parole,Sexual assault of a child is mandatory life without parole.
    Make prisoners productive.There's a lot they can do to pay back to society while they are behind bars IMO

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    ziggy

    Posts : 950
    Join date : 2010-02-16
    Age : 56
    Location : Sonoma County CA

    Re: Sam in court today September 20, 2010

    Post by ziggy on Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:16 pm

    Scott - agree with you about harsher sentences for actual evil dudes and less for pot, I mean it's pot....seriously. I'm in CA though so pot is no biggie here and will probably be legal soon.

    Claudi - how do you know Sam is not a sociopath? How else would you explain his lack of feeling when murdering four people in cold blood? On what do you base your conclusion that they are not born that way? I don't think you know one so it's easy for you to say we throw that term around too much - but you would be and should be frightened to know how many there are. They are not all criminals of course but when they do become criminals they are the scariest: they look like everyone else, they talk a great game, you may even like them but they are RUTHLESS.

    Claudi - sociopaths cannot be reformed. There's a difference between depression and a complete severence of the conscience where they just aren't like regular humans anymore, they are organisms capable of inherently surviving and getting what they want.

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    Re: Sam in court today September 20, 2010

    Post by Guest on Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:39 pm

    Liked the formating claudi Very Happy
    @ Ziggy - Great example of regional differences. Pot is still a big deal in VA. Not a HUGE deal but a big deal none the less.
    @ Claudi - I almost said prostitution too. Slippery slope. The potential for exploitation is HUGE. None the less if people want to pay for sex... they will. Law enforcement has better things to focus on than behavior between consenting adults. Also you expanded nicely on my suggestion of reassigning more police to anti pedophile task forces. I think that is an under appreciated problem. Criminals that prey on children are far more serious than rereational drug uses. Criminals that prey on children have very high recitivism rates. Criminals the prey on children often get unfortunately light sentences in the beginning. The system needs to devote more reasources to going after these predators and hitting them harder when they catch them.
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    ziggy

    Posts : 950
    Join date : 2010-02-16
    Age : 56
    Location : Sonoma County CA

    Re: Sam in court today September 20, 2010

    Post by ziggy on Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:21 pm

    Agree

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    Re: Sam in court today September 20, 2010

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